“In the end, will there be different kinds of Judgment?”

Steve Brown:
In the end, will there be different kinds of judgment? Let’s talk about it, on Key Life.

Matthew Porter:
Welcome to Key Life. Our host and teacher is Steve Brown. He’s nobody’s guru, but he does have honest answers to hard questions about the Bible. God’s grace changes everything, how we love, work, live, lead, marry, parent, evangelize, and worship. Now, here’s Steve and Pete Alwinson from ForgeTruth with street-smart Bible teaching for real life.

Steve Brown:
Thank you Matthew. Hi Pete.

Pete Alwinson:
Hey. Happy Friday.

Steve Brown:
Hey. Now, when this broadcast is aired, it will have happened a good while ago. We are very smart here and efficient and we record way ahead. However, in real time, you have a new addition to your family.

Pete Alwinson:
Yes. My baby daughter, Jesse, just gave birth to her firstborn.

Steve Brown:
What’s her first born’s name?

Pete Alwinson:
Annie Marie Anderson. So, she’s a precious little girl.

Steve Brown:
You can’t stop grinning, makes you look funny.

Pete Alwinson:
I know. Right. Well, you know, there it is.

Steve Brown:
We have a balloon. You can’t see it unless you’re in our television audience. You can’t see it, but over Pete’s head, there’s a balloon that says, it’s a girl.

Pete Alwinson:
It’s a girl! Yeah.

Steve Brown:
And I pointed out, that I have a German Shepherd named Annie, too.

Pete Alwinson:
Mm hmm.

Steve Brown:
And I’m sure that Pete and his daughter got together and decided to name the new baby after my Shepherd.

Pete Alwinson:
In light of the first dog.

Steve Brown:
That’s Pete Alwinson and if you haven’t gone to ForgeTruth.com you ought to go there. You’re going to find out so much that is so good. And the Forge meetings are incredible here in Central Florida. I think at last count, there were 10 of them or 10 of them around the country and they’re growing. So, check it out, if you’re a guy, it’s life changing. And as you know, Pete comes in on Fridays and we answer your questions and we love your questions. You can ask a question in any time you want by simply dialing 1-800-KEY-LIFE, 24 7, or you can send your question to

Key Life Network
P.O. Box 5000
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in Canada, it’s

Key Life Canada
P.O. Box 28060
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or you can e-mail your question to [email protected] and if you can help us financially, that would be a real plus, at least from our perspective. This is a very expensive ministry, and when you help us, we help others who can’t help us financially. And if you can’t, we understand. If you’re not led to or you can’t afford it, we get it. Say a prayer. We would appreciate that too. Pete, if you’d lead us in prayer, we’ll turn to these questions.

Pete Alwinson:
You got it. Let’s pray together. Our Father, what a joy it is to come into your presence and to worship you, to stop momentarily on this Friday and to remember You are the supreme king of heaven and earth, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. One God and three persons, and that pushes our mental understanding of who you are, but in faith, because Jesus has come. We trust you and thank you for your powerful work in our life all these years drawing us into your presence. Father, some of us are brand new to you. You have just called us to follow you and your Spirit made known the truth in our life. And so, Lord, we thank you for those new brothers and sisters that have joined us in the body of Christ. And now, on this week-end, Lord, we come to you. We’re going to be in worship at some point and we pray for our pastors and teachers and priests and leaders, worship directors. All those who are going to be teaching us about the gospel of grace, how it applies to our life and how it sets us free. And so, we thank you for all of your great gifts to us. Thank you for Key Life, this great ministry, for all those that do so much behind the scenes. Bless Steve and his crew and this team. And we commit this time of Q&A to you now. In Jesus’ name we pray. Amen.

Steve Brown:
Amen. Let’s go to our phone lines.

Caller 1:
What’s the difference between the great white throne of judgment and the judgment seat of Christ?

Steve Brown:
That’s a good question, and I get uncomfortable with those kinds of questions because I have, there are my brothers and sisters who take eschatology and break it up into a thousand different things that are going to happen. And I kind of feel like we’ll wake up one morning and bang, it’s all going to start happening. And when I start separating this and this and this, it drives me nuts, but I asked Peter off the air when we were talking about it, Pete said, you are nuts. You should. And so, Pete, tell us what’s the difference.

Pete Alwinson:
Well, I didn’t say that. I just have to give that clarification. I respect you too much for that. I think a lot of these end time events that the Bible lays out in different places probably are going to happen in a much more organic and flowing way. But it’s clear that the great white throne judgment where the goats and the sheep are separated out is really the final judgment. And it’s a judgment of condemnation for the unsaved, the ungodly. The Judgment Seat of Christ, more appropriately, is for rewards, II Corinthians 5:10, right?

Steve Brown:
Right.

Pete Alwinson:
But in Romans 14:10, the interesting context here is the context of not judging one another. And so, it says.

Why do you judge your brother or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt. For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.

Called the judgment seat of God here. So, I think there’s just that sense that we are clean in Christ. We are accepted in Christ.

Steve Brown:
And don’t need to fear.

Pete Alwinson:
And don’t need to fear. And so, we are going to be rewarded, but we’re going to cast those crowns before the throne most likely. But the point of the context here in the Romans passage is, in the body of Christ, then we shouldn’t be going around judging each other.

Steve Brown:
Right.

Pete Alwinson:
Which is one of the key things that Key Life has been historically very strong to teach on.

Steve Brown:
In fact, Pete and I are both opinionated in a lot of different areas. And I realize that occasionally we make some of you angry because you write us letters and e-mails. But in fact, if you knew what we really thought and the way we judge others, you would be blown away, but we try not to do that.

Pete Alwinson:
Well, you and I both have to dial that back to, it’s a conscious thing.

Steve Brown:
It really is.

Pete Alwinson:
We know a lot. And we have a lot of opinions and I find it even more consciously right now, that in my older age that I have to, I process that quicker. Like,

Steve Brown:
Yeah. Me too.

Pete Alwinson:
I can’t judge him or her on that. I shouldn’t. But they’re two separate things. And I think the judgment seat of Christ is where we’re going to receive our rewards.

Steve Brown:
And those people who, and Jeremy brought this up when we were discussing it earlier said, there are two kinds of judgment. And the reason for the separation is because people want to make sure that Christians understand there’s a judgment for those who are not believers, and there’s a judgment for those who are believers, thus the great white throne, the judgment kind of conversation. And there’s some truth to that.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s right. Sure.

Steve Brown:
We don’t need to fear judgment.

There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Pete Alwinson:
Amen.

Steve Brown:
Pete, this is an e-mail, interesting. When does a church that says it’s non-denominational become a denomination?

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah, that’s a very important question because that’s a reality these days with the multi-sites. So, how big do you have to be

Steve Brown:
to be a denomination?

Pete Alwinson:
to be a denomination?

Steve Brown:
Two

Pete Alwinson:
You know, perhaps, yeah probably.

Steve Brown:
How many do you need to have a committee?

Pete Alwinson:
I know. Right. I don’t know? That’s good. That’s good.

Steve Brown:
Two or three, I think that’s a theological issue that is brought up in a couple of absolutely genuine, definable denominations who say they’re not a denomination. They’re a movement and there’s a difference. Well, maybe, maybe not. But I think the more people get together and plan together and grow and add churches, the more it smells like a denomination.

Pete Alwinson:
Right. Yeah, good, good points. And I would say, don’t think that denominations are necessarily bad. They’re not. It’s an agreement of like minded Christians to work together to advance the gospel of Jesus Christ. And that’s historically how it’s happened, usually around a charismatic personality and a theological position or a grouping of theological positions. So, it’s how Christians band together and denominations have a lot of advantages, like for instance, in the ordination of ministers. And the oversight of planting new churches. That’s so true. There’s some real advantages to it and that non-denominational churches don’t have that larger connection, interestingly. And then I’m done, but you tapped into my church planting urge here, but what happens is that these churches that finally do become non denominational have to have some other affiliation in order to get ministers and to get staff and it’s happening. So,

Steve Brown:
The Acts movement is that, there are a bunch of them, yeah, there are a lot of those.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah, right, right, right. So, I think that each local church ultimately ought to be independent and connected on themselves. But they can be in a part of a larger body.

Steve Brown:
And God uses that in an amazing way. Will we, this is an e-mail too. Will we know each other in heaven?

Pete Alwinson:
I will know you because I can’t ever forget your voice.

Steve Brown:
Because I’ve got a good voice.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s right.

Steve Brown:
I’m good looking to too. You just skip over that part.

Pete Alwinson:
No, I will. You’re very handsome. You’re a masculine stud, Steve. You are, man. I tell you.

Steve Brown:
Somebody give me a shovel.

Pete Alwinson:
I think that we will know each other in heaven, do you?

Steve Brown:
Oh, I really do. I think we’re created to know each other and heaven’s not going to be any different. It’s going to be more intimate and more real and more profound. And we won’t have to keep our secrets to ourselves.

Pete Alwinson:
Boy, isn’t that the case?

Steve Brown:
You know, you say, well, I’m not telling even in heaven, my secrets. Listen, everybody’s got secrets that are awful. And in heaven, once we’re forgiven and home and see what God has done, oh man, we’re going to dance and sing and laugh. And that’s not even going to be an issue.

Pete Alwinson:
We’re going to be so free. Hey, listen, in heaven, I’m going to tell your secrets, okay?

Steve Brown:
No, you’re not. I get to do that, and I refuse. We’ve got to go, guys. Thanks for joining us. We love you for participating. And Key Life is a listener supported production of Key Life Network.